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How to develop?


How to develop?

Postby wayne » Jun 5, 2007 @ 2:43pm

How do you develop for the present, future and past devices? What about cross compatibility?

Apart from the basics above, what are the best tools for development, and cross platform?
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Postby wayne » Jun 9, 2007 @ 3:38pm

Nobody with any updates on what the current state of play is?

Are there any other forums that I might go to?
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Postby refractor » Jun 11, 2007 @ 10:06am

Nobody's answering because your question is too vague. What kind of application do you want to develop, etc?
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Postby wayne » Jun 11, 2007 @ 4:21pm

Thanks refractor, that made me laugh, that is the sort of answer I would get on an forum.

I am interested in development of all sorts of styles of games (2D and 3D) of course, this is pocket matrix.

I was trying to be general instead of vague. I want to know what the modern development path is so that games work on all modern or future windows handheld device. What to use, and what to target? Like how does .net, Windows Mobile 5/6, visual studio etc work in? I know there has been cross compatibility problems in development for Window devices in times past. I also wonder if there is now an development path that allows the program to compile for Windows XP/Vista and Xbox360. Seriously, I've done no windows development before, I never got around to it.

Apart from that, what are the best tools and API libraries to use to achieve cross platform development between window systems (xbox 360 even) and others (Java Mobile, Palm, Linux, game handhelds and consoles).

I have recently found this thing called www.game-editor.com . I have yet to explore if it is any good for 2D cross platform development. I am looking for anything that is better, and for an 3D alternative, as I don't want to be limited to half assed games. Can any of these things really do anything you want?
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Postby mm40 » Jun 13, 2007 @ 5:00am

Well, if you want to get things running quickly I would use GapiDraw for Mobile, and something like Torque,Ogre3D,Allegro for PC/360/Mac. I don't know much about game editor so can't really comment on it. If you keep your game engine somewhat isolated from the rendering code it should be pretty easy to make it compitable with 2 engines from both the mobile and pc worlds, although you will be limited to 2d games, as any 3d game for mobile is going to look like complete crap on the pc.
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The list

Postby wayne » Jun 13, 2007 @ 11:56am

Yes, you would have to modify graphics to take advantage of the larger resolution and higher features. It is an pity that don't do an 3D Engine and game creation tools, like in Unreal and Crysis, so that it compiles across all targets handheld to console. It shouldn't be too difficult for Open Source to do an standard game engine and content creation tool to replace all these expensive engines, to get rid of this confusing array of sometimes expensive tools. There could be sub-streams for individual game engine types. They could do an standard version for free, and allow businesses to role and sell their own with support. We then would have low cost write once tools across platforms.

I've just spent 20 hours searching for game editors (my head is spinning and my health is an bit messed up). There are lots out there, though an lot are specific or limited, and few have extensive cross platform support. Most require at least some scripting, unless they are restrictive. However, it looks like Open Sourcers/freeware (real programmers) are well and truly on the Authorware path and their are some significant efforts. Reality factory, www.realityfactory.info/cms , and www.genesis3d.com 3D engine seem to have license conditions for free use.

Here is an list of things I have found, somethings are under the wrong headings, some links actually list more commercial engines and are used instead. I am sure I have probably missed some significant ones, if anybody would like to post links, I probably have another ten hours worth of research to do.

As far as handheld cross platform, game editor, and maybe one other, seem to be it, if anybody else knows of any, please let me know.

The open source stuff is probably suitable for conversion to handheld devices.


Creators

http://game-editor.com/
http://www.clickteam.com/eng/index.php
http://www.stagecast.com/creator.html
http://www.conitec.net/english/gstudio/faq.htm
http://www.gamecreators.nl/site/res_editors.php
http://www.thegamecreators.com/

2d/3d
http://www.fpscreator.com/
http://www.shareit.com/product.html?car ... nguageid=1
http://www.conitec.net/english/gstudio/download.php
http://www.conitec.net/english/gstudio/
http://www.3dgamestudio.com/
http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tgb/
http://t3dgm.thegamecreators.com/
http://www.yoyogames.com/make
http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/
http://www.realityfactory.info/cms/

Platform
http://soft.firstproductions.com/pstudio/

Scrolling
http://gamedev.sourceforge.net/

Shooter
http://redsparkstudios.co.uk/2dsgc.htm

Adventure
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/
http://www.enterbrain.co.jp/tkool/RPG_XP/eng/index.html
http://sourceforge.net/projects/sphere
http://sphere.sourceforge.net/

3d adventure
http://3das.noeska.com/

text role
http://www.legendarytales.com/

Graphic
http://www.gamecreators.nl/site/view/vi ... 35&xid=194
http://www.gamecreators.nl/site/view/vi ... 32&xid=191
http://www.tilemap.co.uk/

3d
http://www.gamecreators.nl/site/view/vi ... 34&xid=193


Language/Engine based

http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/
http://www.edgelib.com/
http://www.edgelib.com/index.php?node=license_editions
http://www.edgelib.com/index.php?node=showcase
http://www.realityfactory.info/cms/
http://jacl.sourceforge.net/
http://www.visual3d.net/
http://www.blitzbasic.com/
http://www.blitzbasic.com/Products/blitzplus.php

Mini editor
http://www.zgameeditor.org/index.php/Main/Features
http://www.zgameeditor.org/index.php/Main/Overview
http://www.zgameeditor.org/

Liberty basic
http://www.alycesrestaurant.com/game.htm

Multiplayer
http://www.byond.com/developer/

Online role playing
http://www.dimensionex.net/en/default.htm

Stratergy and tatic
http://aspc.cs.utt.ro/~karg/ppt/


Others
http://www.gamecreators.nl/site/res_sites.php
http://www.gamecreators.nl/


3d Links

http://www.blade3d.com/WhatisBlade3D/ta ... fault.aspx
http://www.bajaengine.com/pages/compare.html
http://www.bajaengine.com/?gclid=CKyOzL ... WAodaSyguA
http://www.blender.org/
http://www.terathon.com/c4engine/index.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysis
http://www.conitec.net/english/gstudio/faq.htm
http://www.gamecreators.nl/site/view/vi ... =8&xid=124
http://archive.gamespy.com/reviews/octo ... ndex2.shtm
http://www.genesis3d.com/
http://www.vectorg.com/tour01.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze_War
http://www.multigen.com/products/index.shtml
http://www.visual3d.net/Features/tabid/55/Default.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueSpace
http://www.caligari.com/Store/Special/VR15POST.html


DX10
http://alkyproject.blogspot.com/2007/04 ... log-i.html


viewer
http://www.3h.com.au/
http://www.turntool.com/?gclid=CMXSls3J ... WAodaSyguA


AI
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/list.asp?categoryid=18
http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Art ... nce/Games/
http://www.louderthanabomb.com/
http://www.simbionic.com/indexjs.htm


Utils:

Video
http://radgametools.com/

Installation
http://www.macrovision.com/products/ins ... ndex.shtml


3D handhelds:

http://mobile.sdsc.edu/devices.html
http://forum.beyond3d.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32


---------

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Torque

Postby wayne » Jun 13, 2007 @ 1:56pm

mm40

I went through the torque product lines, boy what an confusing site, my head feels like it is falling off. the product looks very good, let's hope they designed it better than their website. I have seen an few products claiming to be the best 2D game maker, but I do believe this one might actually be able to do it.

From what I can tell, the Builder product does not do 3D environments, and the 3D engines doesn't have the simple Builder like functionalities. Am I right in this?

I hope they get an 3D builder pro (on latest DX10/OpenGL) Would give thegamecreator 3D products an good run for their money.


mm40, can these products be used at all to develop for PPC/Windows 5.0/6.0 devices?
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Postby PointOfLight » Jun 13, 2007 @ 2:45pm

For the past 3 years I have been looking for game development tools for PDA platforms, and before that have spent several years trying out different tools for the PC. Unless I've missed some great universal, you will find nothing to fill all of your needs. While I've not necessarily tried or worked extensively with all of these products, here are some suggestions for various combinations of development:

XBox 360 / PC / Linux / Mac: Torque products. Granted you have to either use the separate 2D and 3D tools or get creative with the camera in the 3D tool, but these products will definitely cover all the bases listed above.

PC / Linux / PocketPC / GP2X / Smartphone: Game Editor, but only if you're interested in 2D. Also, I would imagine that since this works on Linux and GP2X, which is Linux based, that it will also be made to work on the new Linux-based palms when they are released.

PC / PocketPC / Smartphone: Pocket Programming Language, if you want an actual programming environment rather than a "game making tool". Again, only 2D.

Palm: I'm still trying to figure this one out. From what I can tell so far, though, if you want to develop games for the Palm you have no choice but to get hardcore into the programming. There are no easy to use tools here that I know of. The most common environment I've seen for development is Codewarrior.

I would also highly suggest looking over Wayne's list. I've run across just about all of those at one point or another, and many of them have a lot of pluses. It really depends on how generic or specific a tool you want.
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Postby mm40 » Jun 13, 2007 @ 3:07pm

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Postby mm40 » Jun 13, 2007 @ 3:17pm

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Postby wayne » Jun 13, 2007 @ 3:50pm

Eric, thanks, after spending all this time, that is about my opinion as well. If anybody has some new ones, please feel free to add them.


Unfortunately Palm seems to suffer an lot in the games stakes, the last time I looked, four or more years ago, the games looked more like 8-bit games from the 80's and Pocket PC games looked like advanced Amiga games.


It should be possible to make an authoring package that does everything through clicks interfaces and graphically, unfortunately nobody has. I have thought of it previously, and did an logical design analysis exercise an few days back (something I am still good at) and I realised that it was possible.


I have some further news.

Did an enquiry with thegamecreators about their products, and they managed to answer my enquiry while hardly answering any of it, but did mention FPScreator x10 (an Direct X 10 version). From reading through that Torque site, I believe that an 3D game builder is probably likely sometime this year or next. From speaking to game-editor they have plans for more platforms, and I can't remember where ever they had 3D coming. But all that stuff was some time in the future.


To summarise other interesting looking products for non handhelds, past what Eric has already said.

Clickteam Gamefactory, has had an reputation, don't know if version 2 is much better, but they have multimedia content versions (didn't circle own this at one stage as an alternative to flash, before flash did games).

Game Maker from Yoyo, has free version, and pro is $20.

The Game Creators products seem to offer some more powerful stuff.

Reality Factory seems better again fort 3D, but don't know about FPScreator X10.

The Torque gamebuilder looks like it maybe the most advanced for 2D, and there 3D engines certainly look nice.

I wonder how the ConitecGame Studio compares to Torque, it appears to have 3D?

Stagecast creator is for kids.

Zgameeditor claims to use OpenGL calls and component technology etc to produce games and screen-savers that can be (or is that limited to) less than 64K.


New addition, I have just seen, but don't know if it is any good for games:

http://www.3drad.com/
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Postby wayne » Jun 13, 2007 @ 4:35pm

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Postby wayne » Jun 13, 2007 @ 6:59pm

Well, I went to the Khronos website, and think I found one of those cross platform development systems (don't know the price though).

http://www.khronos.org/consumers/category/C71

http://www.renderware.com/

It is offline at the moment so I went over to archive.org and got an few links. Supports many console formats and mobile too, but don't know about PPC:

http://web.archive.org/web/200604270404 ... rware.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200604260428 ... mobile.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/200604271055 ... oducts.asp


Here is another crossplatform with PDA.

http://www.mobex3d.com/

Mentions mobile, Pocket PC and Windows:
http://es3d.sourceforge.net/

Xforge, I don't know which mobile devices it supports, apart from Palm, I can't get the link to work for me.

http://www.acrodea.co.jp/en/product/index.html

Interesting thing I found over at GBADEV, was an sprite to Voxel converter (they also have Dev kit). Voxels would be interesting on an handheld, is there any pocket PPC engines out there, there are many sites, and an OpenGL Volumiser standard.

http://www.gbadev.org/demos.php?showinfo=1352
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Postby PointOfLight » Jun 13, 2007 @ 7:39pm

Mobex 3D works with PocketPC 2002+, Windows XP and Vista (and probably older versions of Windows as well), and Mac OSX+. However, there is a license fee plus a small percentage of royalties involved.

I was a bit surprised to see that OpenGL ES was "cross-platform", as I thought the ES was an embedded standard for the full OpenGL protocol (read: watered down). That could be a route to pursue if you really want to tackle 3D.

I don't believe X-Forge is developed any more. As I was trolling around the site listed, I never found anything more about X-Forge, though I was able to find info about other products listed on their site. I know at one point X-Forge was a Fathammer product, but at some point that changed and I don't remember why.

Unfortunately I don't really have the time to go through all the links you've provided in the past few posts (you've obviously been doing some homework recently). If your main interest right now is 2D development, you want to target several platforms but don't necessarily care about all, and want to include handhelds in that list, I'd suggest starting with Game Editor. That will give you the widest coverage with the least amount of "effort" - it will still be work, obviously, but you won't have to learn different development environments and compilers.
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Postby wayne » Jun 13, 2007 @ 8:47pm

Thanks Eric, apart from the ones you have already mentioned, I would suggest that the only links worth looking at for ease of development, of graphical action games (unless you like adventures), are:

http://www.renderware.com/
http://www.conitec.net/english/gstudio/
http://www.realityfactory.info/cms/
http://www.visual3d.net/
http://www.zgameeditor.org/
and maybe the gamecreators (though, I am tempted to include the free gamemaker also).

By the way, I like your website.

Thanks for the help and advice.


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