Socrates talks to Jesus

[refractor]

[James S]

I agree with your post.

But the point of church is to have religious fellowship, friends that believe the same thing you do. It IS a social gathering, but one that allows everyone with similar views to get together and learn more.
Church is the religious form of school. Some go to school to learn, others go because they have friends, others go to impress the teacher. replace "school" with "church" in that last sentence and you've got the same deal.

Religious people bleat out things like that because it means absolutely all for the people that say them. To understand each other you have to go half way. Jesus rising from the dead means that we get to also, it means we get to live forever in Heaven and be friends with God.
To others you simply don't even believe that it happened or simply don't care because you're worldly people. Religous people are spiritual, concerned with their soul, secular (sans the negative connotation) people are concerned with bettering their life.
The point of bleating it again and again isn't to try to be truer-followers. The point is to try and reach someone. The clique isn't exclusive.
Some just go about 'recruiting' in a very poor fashion.

Kids, yup. They're easy to distort. A lot of preachers are all about how bad people are and how we're all going to hell. But hey, they're there. They're wrong, too. I know I'm going to Heaven, not because I'm good but because of that often bleated phrase.

It's very possible to be "closer" to God than others. But it's a one sided thing. We can learn more about God and get closer to Him, but God is trying to get close to everyone. But this is all just babel, isn't it?

Blind faith is about believing without the need for proof, not inspite of proof.

A lot of hymns are really stupid. Two weeks ago it was like being a part of a very poor version of the Phantom of the Opera . But if you go to a cool church then they sing songs, popular songs that you'd hear on Christian radio. Up beat songs. Drums, guitars, electric keyboards, all the good fun instruments.

It's not a question about being a good person or not. It's about going to Heaven, that's all. Heaven isn't the place where all the good people in the world go. Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam, all of those Old Testament people and prophets are in Shoel (Hell) right now waiting for Jesus to come again for the Final Judgement so they can finally get into Heaven. The Ten Commandments weren't commandments made for punishmenet. Before Jesus, following the commandments was the way to get into Heaven. But no one could follow them so God intervened and made it super easy. Forgive and be forgiven. You were saying how God doesn't do anything with His omnipotence? Well He did.

God DID make the decision as to how we live out eternity, through Jesus. You're still thinking worldly, can you please meet me half way on this for a moment?
Earth is the "proving ground" if you will. This is where we get to choose what we do, how we do it, any why. This is where we have free will to do whatever we want to. Some praise God with their free will, some make millions of dollars, some act good for the good of being good, others decide to do things the "easy" way and steal and kill. God gave us free will on Earth because without free will then there is no point to anything. Do you see that? If God controlled everything then why do we have brains? It would be like a girl playing with her dolls, the girl dictates what those dolls do. God didn't want to be the puppet master. The girl gets bored of those dolls after not too long, right? Chance it a lot more interesting.
But also, (remember, meet me half way) this world isn't the end. Worldly people keep wanting a better life on Earth, wars to be stopped, people to not go hungry, which is GREAT. I wish those things never happened. But this Earth isn't what's MOST important. Our souls, our lives in Heaven, are what is MOST important. (are you trying to meet me half way? )

I can't help you understand unless you come to the middle ground. I'm trying. Please, I just want you to ATLEAST understand so you're not so offended.

[refractor]

[James S]

As long as you understand even a little of what I say. I just hope I can get you to the point where people talking to you about Christianity won't offend you. So that people trying to get you to go to church won't offend you. So you can understand the terms they might use and what they really means.

"Recruit" was a bad word to use, but it served its purpose I suppose.

It is different, being concerned with your soul and being concerned about your... I'm not sure what the best word would be ... conscience, self-awareness, intellect, whatever ...
I'm not sure how to explain. The soul... it brings power (speaking in tounges, healing), wisdom, discernment between the two sides of the balance (I don't want to say good and evil or light and dark, because it's just the "opposites" contrasting concept, not a good or bad contrast thing).
I'm not explaining it very well because I myself don't know. But we've got our flesh, our mind, and our soul. flesh=bodies, mind=consciousness, soul=eternal self.

Again, recruiting was a bad word because evangelic Christians aren't out there marketing, they don't WANT anything out of you. It's like someone going out, finding lots of homeless, and giving them a ride to the soup kitchen. They're doing the same thing, but with a more spiritual focus, but still with the soup

God is in total control, but we are too. We're "part of" God. We can give up our control to God and let Him mold us and our actions, but first we have to GIVE UP to God.
Like people with terret's syndrome, the body won't let the mind control everything all the time. This person's hand might fling out and smack someone, or their mouth might yell something out. Their mind still functions and can control all of the body, but the body won't succumb to the mind.
God is the mind, we're his body parts. Some parts have given up to the mind, others still act on their own.
Christians call that giving up to God, letting God in to our lives and listening to what He tells us to do, being "baptised in the Holy Spirit" is the specific term. After that we learn to speak in tounges, heal people, performs miracles and stuff (I've been a part of a healing, it's incredibly cool. Believe it or not, but that's not the point of this paragraph), and we listen to the thoughts that God puts in our head. Sounds weird and schizophrenic, but it's not. It's a very ... tangible difference. ... ooh, sorry, getting kind of preachy
The point, we can give up our free will to God and let Him control our lives. It doesn't always seem to work out for the better, the original 12 Apostles, Jesus' diciples, were bums, wore rags, didn't eat well, had no family, no money. But it works out for the better, "the whole picture" kind of deal.
And also, with the terret's syndrome analogy, the body can still do the proper things without giving up to the mind, the hand doesn't always have to smack someone. I'm not saying you can't be a good person without giving up to God.

About the afterlife ... I can't really convince you that there is one. If you've experienced Christianity, the Holy Spirit, then it's pretty hard to believe otherwise. But I'm "set in [my] opinion." I'm just certain that there is and it's incredibly hard to try to put it into words.

I'd like to describe "speaking in tounges" if you'd let me. The religious description of speaking in tounges is letting your soul control your mouth. But what it is is babelling... letting your mouth move without even thinking, you'll just start speaking syllables and it comes together and sounds like words but in no specific language. It's the language of your spirit and it's different from everyone else's. It's your personal language to God, because God can hear your thoughts but Satan can only hear what you speak. Speaking in tounges allows you to speak outloud to God without Satan interfering. <- Religious definition. Later you'll be thinking and suddenly you'll realize what you were asking God for when you were speaking in tounges. An epiphany ... or theophany to be more precise.
I don't know if I only confused it more or not. Speaking in tounges is just speaking without thinking about it, just letting your mouth babel. It's the first sign that you've been "baptised in the Holy Spirit."

alla salamanotzio anatscie ey...
there, that's an exaxmple.

[Malmer]

Speaking in tounges is so much more than just babbling the words of your spirit. To begin with you are in control. And you are speaking. But the words are not fromyour head, but from your spirit. But it is not a trance, as some people think (don't think you do moose, since you've experienced it. I'm just emphasising it for those here who havn't). There is a depth in prayer. Go to bibleschool for two years and you'll know what I mean. Tounges can also be real world languages. My bibleschool teacher spoke arabic during a morning prayer, and one of the international students recognised it (I'm in one of the best bibleschools in the world so people come from all over the planet).

One of these days I'll get into one of you people's religious discussions for real. Not now though...need to sleep.

[James S]

Ya man! I had just gotten back from my French final so I wasn't using the best words to describe it all.

It's DEFINITELY not a trance, you are completely aware just like normal, just like you're talking to a friend, but it's just a different language. And ya, it can be a real language except I've never experienced that first or second hand so I can't comment on HOW FRICKIN COOL THAT WOULD BE TO SUDDENLY START SPEAKING IN A REAL LANGUAGE YOU'VE NEVER SPOKEN BEFORE!

You see, you see! I keep running into incredibly intelligent and well educated people that are Christians. That's such a misconception that only ignorant uneducated are Christians because once you're educated suddenly God isn't real anymore. I don't understand why education kills God, when all it really does is explain how God does the things he does.

I'm looking forward to the day you join in, Malmer. You'll be some good backup... of course I'd probably fall back to being the sidekick because I'm positive you can articulate yourself, your knowledge, and your emotions much better than I can. Miserable highschool cheated me out of life!

[refractor]

[Paul]

[James S]