Please Ban SDM

[James S]

They're not taking money away from you against your will. You are represented by your government as equally as everyone else, and being represented along with living inside the terroritory of your nation-state equals subjection to government law.

Government is a social agreement to protect you and your property from harm, theft, or infringement upon your liberties. In order for a centralized government to do this they must have a certain amount of power and influence from the people. This power comes from the people willingly giving the government some of their liberties and property so that the government can use it to protect you. By acquiescing you receive the right to be protected by your government and live within its boundaries.

Taxation also stems inflation and stabilizes the market economy, along with spreading wealth more equally through wellfare and social security.

Please, don't be ignorant. Your enumerated list is quite compelling ... if you're an uneducated anarchist.

[Brig]

[chuck]

really andy that list is ridiculous. i'm guessing your some hardcore libertarian, which is cute. I used to want to be libertarian till i realized that people are too stupid to have a small govt. especially people like you, you need to do some thinking because you're little rant is extremely dumb.

[Andy]

Ok, help me think this out Chuck. Why is my little rant dumb?

Simple scenario: I don't want to pay for social security, or medicare.

They take my money, regardless. We've already estabished that there is a corroloation between time and money. So the US Government is taking my money for services I'll never use - as they're inferior - to pay for someone else's services. What is that? Emotionally, it feels like theft to me. At the best, I'm being strong-armed.

Some people are worth more than others. Equal opportunity != Equal results. Socialism tries to turn make that equation true, kind of like this:

Equal Opportunity ~= Equal Results + ((Avg.Result)-(MyResult))

Jimmy, if you promise not to cry off again, this might be a fun debate.

[Chris Edwards]

I like free health care. We went to a hospital in the States once, and it was really expensive.

[James S]

Yeah, The US is about the only industrialized country that doesn't have state paid medical services. So that's why we have insurance companies, and that's why employers can get away with paying less by offering insurance as an 'employee benefit.' So by not providing ... is it called 'socialized medicine' (?) the government is actually forcing employers to pay us less.

And I don't see how your logic leaped from taxes to equal opportunity. ... I can't work that out on my own, maybe you can help out, Andy, and actually articulate your thoughts?

[Andy]

Not really, though. Just because you don't pay for it explicitly, it doesn't mean you aren't paying for it. I'd wager that the US is ahead of the other industrialized nations healthcare-wise.

Canadians are in a pickle to some degree when they have to visit a hospital in the states. Of course, had they not been subscribed to their state-healthcare system, chances are a private health insurance program would have covered treatment in the US.

Healthcare, from my experiences, does two things that I really don't like:
1.) It lowers the overall quality of docters.
2.) It takes choice away from the patient.

Point 2 deserves some elaboration. I know in England if you get cancer, you had better relocate your ass ASAP to a region with a good cancer docter.

A friend of mine's mom was not in a good healthcare region and she was diagnosed with some form of bone-marrow cancer. They told her it was terminal. So she flew back to the US and was back in a few monthes -- cancer-free.

When she got back, she talked a bit about the difference in medical treatment; and in all honesty, the state of medicine in the UK is about two decades removed from leaches and blood-letting by comparison to the US. And from what I've seen, she was right.

Another cancer-case. This time in London, and much more serious. The difference? His healthcare region has one of the foremost docs in cancer-treatment.

Both lived, luckily. But reverse their situations for a moment. What if case #2, who certainly didn't have the money to fly to the US, much less relocate, had been going to hospital #1 for treatment? He'd be SOL.

The point is, if I just need a prescription for antibiotics, I'll go to a free-clinic. If I need brain surgery done, I'll go to the Mayo-clinic. Private healthcare options allow me to do that; most public ones don't. If I want to risk running around with no healthcare, private options allow me that luxury -- and I won't cry if I lose that gamble.

[Andy]

[Andy]

Now that I look at it, my equation makes no sense. Here's the correct version:

Equal Opportunity ~= Equal Results + SUMMATION((Avg.Result)-(IndividualResult))

That summation, of course, being for all individuals.

Is there any way to get the summation sign in there? Can't believe it isn't on the keyboard; theres plenty of less useful symbols on there to toss.

[James S]

[chuck]

[Andy]

[Andy]

[Maf54]

[Andy]