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Democracy the Bush way


Postby sponge » Jan 20, 2004 @ 2:50am

holy internets batman.
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Postby RICoder » Jan 20, 2004 @ 6:30am

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Postby Andy » Jan 20, 2004 @ 8:11am

My posts have been intentionally "out there", though I'm afraid I do think the country was intended to be a limited republic. Granted, I haven't had the time to read all of the federalist papers yet (they're not easy reading).
But I have read the constitution; and it seems to lean in the favor of a very limited government.
* They had to ammend the constitution just to legalize income tax; that speaks oodles to me.
* The taxation that is allowed by the first draft of the constitution, is explicitly instructed to be fair (ie, the same for everyone), not anti-wealth. Technically, they say it is supposed to be based on population, and you probably could screw the rich even more in states with a large population, but that's not its intention.
* FDR's defecation of the constitution (the New Deal) seems wholly against the intentions of the founding fathers. Heck, just look at my signature for one of their opinions. (Granted, Jefferson was the coolest of them -- If heaven does indeed exist, I plan to knock back a few drinks with him and Andrew Jackson [because he's cool] in hell).
* At the risk of sounding like an even larger looney: I'm not a constitutional expert, but things like welfare and the New Deal seem so counter to what I percieve the intentions of the constitution to be, that (if they aren't) should be unconstitutional. The only justification I can find for such social-managing legislation is the general welfare clause, and there's pratically an entire federalist paper dedicated to that one -- and I don't read it in a way democrats would like.

Note: I was reticent to post this, as I haven't had time to read the fed. paepers thoroughly (and very well may be entirely wrong), but I promise to have read them before I bring up anything else about the nature of the orignal US.
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Postby RICoder » Jan 21, 2004 @ 3:37am

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Postby Maf54 » Jan 21, 2004 @ 3:57am

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Postby RICoder » Jan 21, 2004 @ 4:02am

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Postby Maf54 » Jan 21, 2004 @ 4:05am

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Postby RICoder » Jan 21, 2004 @ 4:07am

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Postby Andy » Jan 21, 2004 @ 4:13am

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Postby Maf54 » Jan 21, 2004 @ 4:48am

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Postby Andy » Jan 21, 2004 @ 5:22am

Do you mean among the democrats? I don't know; I don't think I'd vote for any of them.

Would I vote for Bush? I'd consider it, if he came even remotely close to keeping it between the lines he layed out tonight. He won't, though. So, I don't think I'd vote for him.

Idealogically, I'm probably closest to those looney's over at the libertarian party, but that organization is a joke. I think one of their candidates is running his site off a compuserve domain; most of them didn't even bother putting out the extra $8 it would have taken to get a custom domain. There's absolutely no polish; and many of their platforms are in need of a serious reality check. James would make a better porn star than any of the LP candidates would a presidential contender. So, I don't think I'll vote for them.

Really, I'd like to see a well-operated libertarian-leaning campaign. One that realizes you can't go from 0-libertarian in 4 seconds. One that realizes cutting down on the government is going to take a long ass time.

So I don't think I'm voting. It makes little sense for me to do so: I'm stuck between two realistic candidates, both big spenders. I guess I can try to quantify their positions, and pick the lesser of the evils. But I don't like that approach to voting, and I don't think there's a big enough difference in their platforms to justify it.

Or I could dig around the third parties and find someone that might be remotely close to what I want and be one of the 10 people who vote for him/her. Possibly even throw a voting party, and then go reenact Waco after the disappointing election results.

Or I can go watch a movie at the theaters, and enjoy myself, rather than dealing with the bunch of idiots and elderly we call our voter base.
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Postby Maf54 » Jan 21, 2004 @ 5:29am

What the Libertarian party needs to do is find a place like the Green Party has (I don't care if you don't like them this is not about their views but them trying tog et bigger). They are looking to be the winners of the San Francisco Mayoral race (last time I checked). If their views work then they can slowly build up a bigger base by showing how they got things going there. When I asked the question up there I meant overall not just the Democrats. I am pleased that I have never heard anyone of this board say they support Lieberman. :D
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Postby RICoder » Jan 21, 2004 @ 5:33am

Libertarians are ok in theory...just like socialists. It doesn't work in practice. I had a woody the first time I read Ayn Rand...but then I got over it.
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