The Fate of the Union

[Mike Bannick]

[Paul]

[randall]

He [Saddam Hussein] was part of the political party that shared the views of the nazis.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP, later known as the Nazi party) in and of itself is not a horrible concept. It is simply the National Socialist German Workers Party.

Kind of a supercharged workers-union for the entire nation. Socialism? Ask your friendly neighborhood Canadian how that works (or doesn't).

Workers Socialist Parties are alive and well all over the world. They certainly aren't associating themselves with the Nazis.

Now was this the view that Saddam shared? I'm thinking you are referring to the attrocities and corruption that Hitler injected into the Nazi party. This is how the Nazi party is known- and why Nazi-ism (even a picture of the flag) is banned in many countries. Pretty good reason- even if the original Nazi party didn't promote those concepts.

People ask how an entire nation could be duped into following the Nazi way. Those were working people. Hitler (not the Nazis) later blamed the uber-rich Jews for their financial and economic troubles. Segregation began, as the Germans were continuously told that their country and way of life was in danger (similar to how we are told over and over that terrorism is affecting us). Germany invaded Poland in 1938 in order to "protect the Germans that are living there".

Lets discuss France. France will turn their country over to any asshole with a pea-shooter. Germany basically stomped straight through Paris without so much as a snowball fight in WWII. So their "worldly views" within the UN don't hold much.

Germany just wants to be in good with France, for once. They aren't going to be the aggressor in any circumstances- it will take 1000 years for them to live down the holocaust.

"...people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce (opponents)pacifists for lack of patriotism."

Nazi ReichMarshall Herman Goering at The Nuremburg Trials.

That quote can apply to both Iraq and USA. Hussein SHOULD step down. But if Sociopathic Dictatorships of the past have been any indication- he won't do it alive.

[David Horn]

[Ainvar]

[Warren]

Randall, your post about the Nazi party is entirely true. The whole original purpose of it was to improve the German economy from WWI. Well, when they got into power, that's exactly what happened. The economy went way up, and people were happy and liked the new government. But then it changed, Hitler went nuts and started his racism fanaticism, and the Nazis started to become more of a cult than political party, especially with the start of the SS, which was actually kind of religious with the rituals and ceremonies... But people really didn't oppose because the economy was so good, so why stop it? Then WWII started, and people kind of realised what was happening, but also learned that if you speak out against it, you get shot, so people kept their mouths shut, which goes with the quote Randall said: "...and denounce (opponents)pacifists for lack of patriotism." If you didn't go along, you're dead, so duh... It is said that if Hitler never went crazy or anything, he would today be known as one of the world's greatest leaders, so he completely screwed himself over. But the quote goes with what is happening now in the US. If you are patriotic, then you support the military and war. You see the commericals, with the old geezer WWII veteran couples sitting on their lawn with the American flag. If you are patriotic, then you support war. What I say is, nationalism is ok, but you don't have to kill people over it.

Ainvar, just read what you wrote. I'm not a hippie, and 99% of people that don't want war aren't. Do I know how to read and bathe myself? Do you see 13 year old girls that don't want war pumping out 15 babies? Just because one doesn't want people to kill and die for basically little reason, doesn't make them an idiot. You're the idiot, for saying that peace=stupidity, and that death=real world.

As for the third world countries, why do you hate them? Is the existence of poor people hindering your life? Would you like to nuke and kill all of them so you don't have to see them on the news? 17% of the world is poor, and that's probably a lot less than you'd think, because at school, we're taught that the US is rich, and everyone else is poor. Ainvar, do the people in Mongolia erritate you that much? Does every person in the Middle East have a nuke on their back? Ainvar, do the world a favor, and shut your face, seriously. Why have hate when you don't have to.

[sandmann]

Warren, you don't seem to realize that whether we are going to war for good or little reason is debatable, and fuck, when a psycho dictator who's hostile to the US has nukes and chemical weapons with a history of using them, I'm not quite sure that's little reason.

And Warren, yes, people in the Middle East do irritate me. That region is so fucked up right now. You talk about human rights and such, do you even have any idea what is happening in those countries? Countries there are filthy fucking rich but their citizens live in poverty. Why? The dictators and Shahs and "religious leaders" are wringing their populous' necks. Just look at how many countries are ruled by warlords. Half the countries don't even have a government for us to hate. Maybe you've missed the tremendous publicity on the piss-poor quality of life there? Are you too busy watching Tom Brokaw bend information to his liberal standards? People get lined up in a stadium that the world paid for (to try to improve the quality of life) and are shot and hung. When asked for the executions to be held somewhere else, the people there said "if you build us an execution arena, we'll stop using the soccer field." Fucking animals.

[Digby]

[Paul]

haha, thats some funny shit.

[Warren]

Sandmann, I don't want to argue with you, but you keep saying that I don't know what I'm talking about, but do you? Have you been to Yemen? Or Iraq? Me ane my family lived in Israel in the 80s, so we know more than you do. Yes, there are some crazy countries, like Afghanistan under the Taliban, but that was the WORST in the Middle East. People in Saudi Arabia aren't poor, many of them are actually quite rich (oil). Iraqis are not "piss-poor", they have cars, food, all the basics, but Bush won't tell you that. People are not starving in Afghanistan, but the US flew over to drop food to the people to make it seem like they were starving. Jordan is a peaceful country, Lebanon is too, the teenagers in Lebanon go to the malls everyday there. Yes Sandmann, MALLS in Lebanon. You think it's a big desert with terrible governments that chop off people's hands. You say my views are created by the media..."Maybe you've missed the tremendous publicity on the piss-poor quality of life there?" Oh, and I'm sure you went there to see for yourself~~~~

I just searched for French Military Victories, I think the ONLY one is Joan of Arc... and they helped us win the American Revolution, so we can't exactly make fun of them...except that they dug trenches for WWII .

[Paul]

pfft, who cares.

i'm watching bremner, bird and fortune. these guys are great. bremners doing saddam, bush and blair tonight!

[Warren]

[Paul]

[Mike Bannick]

[randall]