This site is no longer active and is available for archival purposes only. Registration and login is disabled.

Faster than light travel impossible


Faster than light travel impossible

Postby James S » Jan 19, 2003 @ 1:07am

I don't have any friends in town right now since I'm a college drop out back home for a semester, so I had some time to think about weird things and discuss them with my dad. We got into the subject of faster than light travel and we've determined that it is highly unfeasible.

You see, many people thought that faster than sound travel was impossible. This was only because of their fears. But as you know, when you're moving towards a sound the sound becomes higher pitched. This is because the wavelength of the sound becomes shorter the faster you're going while moving towards it.
This same concept applies to the energy of a photon. The faster you move the higher the frequency of light becomes. Thus the energy that is exported greatly increases the great your speeds are. By the time you hit the speed of light a normal frequency of visible light will become as potent as an X-Ray, because you are moving at twice the speed of light relative to the light you're moving towards when you're traveling at the speed of light. Thus the various X-Ray and Gamma Rays in space would become quite high in energy when moving at this the speed of light.

Now, once the speed of light is broken, the faster one begins to travel the shorter the wavelength becomes, greatly increasing the energy output of a normal light particle. This, when travelling fast enough, will translate into extremely intense radiation. One second travel at such a speed would be like living your lifetime under an X-Ray machine.

So we just block these particles, correct? That would take an immense electro magnetic field, so immense that the amount of energy required to run this would be astrononmical, even on a small shuttle sized craft. This intense electrmagnetic field would also be harmful, so one would have to create a means to block the occupants of a ship from their own deflector shield. Also, the energy radiating off of the energy core that powered this device would have to have shielding of its own.

And while travelling at the speed of light, it would be very difficult to light the ship. Light being emitted from a light bulb in the middle of the room would never make it to the front of the room and act like a spot light hitting only the back of the room. At exactly the speed of light one would see a non-dispersence of light, light would stand still, it would be like what you see when you clip outside of a wall in Doom.

And what about the outside of the ship? The ship would be inundated with gamma waves with wavelengths all the way up to nill, meaning no wave, just a solid and constant exposure. The metal would absorb these particles and distribute them evenly throughout the ship, just like the heatsink on your computer's CPU. This would mean that the inside of the should would resemble the inside of a particle accelerator. Not quite liveable territory.

Would the particles themselves cause physical damage to the ship's hull, aside from exposing it to frequency infinity energy level radiation? Perhaps. Perhaps at such speeds photons manifest themselves in a physical form. Only at infinite velocity could this happen, but I doubt this is the case.

I do not believe humans will EVER reach OR break the speed of light, and these may be some of the reasons. I thoroughly discussed this topic, bouncing back and forth all ideas of compensating for these effects and what these effects might be while waiting for a pizza at Papa John's. There will NEVER be a starship that even begins to reach the speed of light.
James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


Postby Paul » Jan 19, 2003 @ 2:12am

we've gone over this before moose.

for someone who believes in a virgin birth, a bearded dude turning water into sweet sweet vino and feeding a few thousand people with loaves and fishes, you should at least be a little more open minded on this.

i say pretty much anything is possible with technology and 'miracles' its just a matter of time.
Paul
pm Insider
 
Posts: 9835
Joined: Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:15pm
Location: California


Postby angedelamort » Jan 19, 2003 @ 5:14am

User avatar
angedelamort
pm Member
 
Posts: 304
Joined: Mar 7, 2002 @ 11:16pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec


Postby Warren » Jan 19, 2003 @ 5:53am

Warren
pm Insider
 
Posts: 3140
Joined: Mar 13, 2001 @ 5:49pm


Postby James S » Jan 19, 2003 @ 6:45am

James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


Postby nicodemus » Jan 19, 2003 @ 8:36am

User avatar
nicodemus
pm Insider
 
Posts: 446
Joined: Mar 26, 2002 @ 3:58am
Location: LA, California


Postby MZGuy » Jan 19, 2003 @ 12:43pm

User avatar
MZGuy
pm Insider
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: May 30, 2001 @ 11:45am
Location: Finland


Postby James S » Jan 19, 2003 @ 3:48pm

uhm... I'm not sure. I was just assuming they were a high frequency sound wave of sorts. Let me check.

[edit] all electromagnetic radiation -- from radio waves to x-rays -- travel at the speed of light

You are correct. But still my statement holds, with a slight modification. A teleportation device such as mentioned would NOT be able to break the speed of light because there is nothing connecting them that can transmit faster than the speed of light. And would a radio wave have enough frequency to transmit every molecule of the human body in a speedy way? At 80 MHz, how many periods of a radio wave would it take to transmit the entire human body in electronic form? And interference. There's TONS of radiowaves out there already. We'd have to find a wave length that is not used in nature so as to remove all interference. But there isn't one of those. And all of this just to travel near the speed of light? This isn't going to work either, but theoretically it's an interesting alternative. Also, it would have to be a direct line of site, or a highly calculated course, unless these machines were planet sized, because accuracy is impossible important.

The speed of light is 299,972 kilometers per second, just incase anyone wants to know specifically. This is where I got the information about all electromagnetic waves and such being the speed of light: http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/wa ... eed-1.html
James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


Postby sandmann » Jan 19, 2003 @ 8:04pm

Haha if radio waves were sound waves, don't you think you would hear all of the music stations play as they traveled across the country?
The fates lead him who will;
Him who won't, they drag.

Seneca
User avatar
sandmann
pm Insider
 
Posts: 2707
Joined: Dec 7, 2001 @ 10:58pm
Location: Madison, WI


Postby David Horn » Jan 19, 2003 @ 8:26pm

It would be perfectly possible to light the inside of the ship, since the light rays from the bulb would initially travel at the same speed as the ship.

If you drop a ball on a train, it falls vertically. Admittidly, it might be difficult to see inside the ship, but that's another arguement.

It's all about frames of reference.

Just out of curiousity, do you have any advanced knowledge of physics at all? Truthfully, or is it just what you learned at high school?
Crosswind technique: "Using your peripheral vision, react to body movements, gasps, groans, and shouts from the other side of the cockpit, and always remember that it's better to be lucky than good."
User avatar
David Horn
<b>The Boss</b>
 
Posts: 1867
Joined: Feb 17, 2002 @ 2:10pm
Location: PocketGamer Towers (New York, Paris, Leeds)


Postby Warren » Jan 19, 2003 @ 8:58pm

Warren
pm Insider
 
Posts: 3140
Joined: Mar 13, 2001 @ 5:49pm


Postby Brad » Jan 19, 2003 @ 9:37pm

Brad
pm Member
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Jan 19, 2003 @ 9:26pm
Location: Kingston, Ontario


Postby MZGuy » Jan 19, 2003 @ 9:40pm

Well, I suppose it would "hover" inside the train, it'd be a bit odd if it would accelerate inside the train.

About that ball falling vertically inside a train. This can't really be compared to anything that has to do with light, since light always travels at a constant speed and isn't relative.
For example, suppose you fire a gun when standing still. The bullet then has the velocity v1. Now you fire the gun from a car driving with the speed v2. The bullet then gets (supposing you shoot it in the direction of the car's velocity) the speed of v1+v2.
Still the light from the headlights of the car don't move faster relative to the ground when the car is in motion than when it stands still.
I hope I didn't say anything stupid now ;)

[edit] hmm, Brad seems to have explained it all far better, so I guess you can forget this post :P
User avatar
MZGuy
pm Insider
 
Posts: 1044
Joined: May 30, 2001 @ 11:45am
Location: Finland


Postby James S » Jan 19, 2003 @ 10:28pm

I never took physics in highschool. All I know is the basic properties of light and some calculus 2 applications. I just thought it through and came up with this stuff. I have no formal nor informal education in physics.

I was wondering about the speed of light being emitted from a lightbulb inside a ship travelling faster than the speed of light. But the speed of light is constant, isn't it? Even if it's being emitted from a ship that's going faster than the speed of light the light bulb inside the ship would not be able to emit light that's going the velocity of the ship plus the speed of light, because the speed of light is definite. Light cannot travel faster than the speed of light, even when propelled by an external force... or am I mistaken? I thought about the lightbulb inside the spaceship theory for a long time, it took up about 15% of my time waiting for the pizza.
Such as a radio wave being emitted from a moving vehicle. The radio wave does not move at the velocity of the vehicle plus c. If I'm on a walkie-talkie in my car then the signal is not going to go faster just because I'm moving. The signal is emitted in an instant. It's point of origin does not change after the signal has been emitted. There are many more points of origin created because I'm moving, but the point of origin for every emittion as a whole does not change because there is no point of origin as a whole. The signal radiates outwards from the point that it was in in that infinitely small instance in time. And then in the infinitely small instance in time plus one a new point is created in which the signal radiates outwards from.

That is why I believe the light from a lightbulb will never reach the front of a ship moving faster than the speed of light. Especially since I don't believe it possible to reach this speed, but also because of the above stated theoretical grounds. Unless I'm mistaken.

And Warren, the rocket would just "hover" there, because it's initial velocity did not include the velocity of the train. Only if the initial velocity of an object is added to the initial velocity of the train will an object inside accelerate relative to the train.
James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


Postby Paul » Jan 19, 2003 @ 10:34pm

well in star trek you arent even in real space, you're in subspace, inside a subspace bubble, so i'd assume everything inside the bubble would work as normal, its just that the bubble is moving at the speed of light, or something.
Paul
pm Insider
 
Posts: 9835
Joined: Apr 2, 2001 @ 3:15pm
Location: California


Next

Return to Anything Discussion


Sort


Forum Description

Post all off-topic messages here, almost anything goes.

Moderators:

Dan East, sponge, David Horn, Kevin Gelso, RICoder

Forum permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

cron