Why are people so offended by...

[Warren]

[another guest]

So you can interpret the bible as you wish, yet you're supposed to follow the 10 commandments.

Well I think i'll change some of those around.

[sandmann]

Okay, first, your question "Where were we before we were born?" We didn't exist. This is where my biological faith kicks in. We had no previous soul, rather as soon as the sperm hits the egg, God grants us a soul. This soul is present in cell division and specialization all the way to death. There it leaves the body and joins God in Heaven. This cannot be attributed to a physical process, because there is nothing physical about it. Your presence is with God's presence, neither of you have bodies. I don't believe that Heaven is a concious thing. I think that's a view of the afterlife that we use to comfort ourselves; we are too afraid of incomprehensible existence. Heaven never gets 'more crowded', as there is no such thing as physical being anymore. Also, everyone is admitted; those who do not believe in God here on Earth, well, their belief here is inconsequential. Once they are confronted by the presence of God (post-death), they will believe, therefore fitting that criteria. Therefore everyone can share Heaven with God in the afterlife. That's my view.


And Judaism, for the last time, is NOT a nationality, NOT an ethnicity. I constantly hear Jews say "I'm not Italian, I'm Jewish!" I tell them that "Jewish" is not an ethnicity, and when they reply, I ask them to point out a "Jewland" on the map: a nation where its inhabitants are all defined as "Jews." Don't reply Israel, because look at the Palestinian conflict: Palestinians are Muslism inhabitants of Israel!

Judaism is a culture and a religion, as Warren said. You cannot be Jewish and not practice Judaism. Just think about what you said, it makes so little sense.

[edit] Guest, it is difficult to argue with someone who creates ridiculous "what if" situations and exaggerates situations. I specifically inserted a certain line in my post as a guard against this type of comment: "You can worship God any way you choose as long as it's within the bounds of Christian practice." The ten commandments basically ARE Christian practice and morals. You must follow all 10 commandments or you are not worshipping God correctly. Now if you break one, that doesn't mean you're going to Hell, just that you sinned, and you will be forgiven (preferably if you ask for it).

[James S]

No, that's not what I was saying. You can't just go around saying "ya, I don't like that part. Let's get rid of it." or "Meh, I want to be a male prostitue, let's just toss out that Commandment."

I pretty much believe that you can't ignore ANY part of the Bible. My Old Testament teacher believes half of it is false but still calls himself a Christian. I don't believe he is, because ever story we've gone through so far he's completely torn apart, or tried too. You atleast have to believe in the moral and ethical message behind the stories. Whether you believe exactly how Creation occured... I struggle with that one myself. But that's not what makes Christianity what it is. Jesus is what makes Christianity what it is.

[another guest]

So how do you explain that something as crucial as creation is wrong in your mind?

[sandmann]

You are referring to your teacher as God! Blasphemous!

I just can't see how you must believe every single story that occurred in the Bible to be Christian. I can believe in God and follow Christian principles without taking a word of the Bible as concrete fact.

For example, do you believe absolutely that the story of Jesus and the man walking? The man looks back on their footprints on the beach, and sees at some points that there is only one set. He asks Jesus "why did you abandon me in the toughest of times?" Jesus replies, "Son, those were the times that I carried you." I like that story a lot, but do you believe it actually happened? I have a hard time. I love the moral behind it, I enjoy it, but I do not believe it happened. Also remember that the Bible was written according to the times, and though it is incredibly versatile, times change, and your faith has to change with them.

[James S]

That poem was actually written by an anonymous source and is not found in the Bible. That's one of my favorite ones, too, though. FYI, That's not exactly it. It goes something like "at the end of a man's life, he looks back over his journey and sees that at times there was only one set of footprints..." It's titled "Footprints in the Sand" I believe.

I do believe that Jesus walked on water, broke a couple of loafs of bread and fed 10,000 people, turned water into wine, and died and was resurrected.

Sometimes when I read Genesis I just get this feeling that God is chuckling to Himself that some putz put that story in there but had no idea what he was talking about ... I've learned to trust my inner feelings, because those are usually the Holy Spirit communicating with me. But I just don't do with my gut and nothing else. I pray about it, read more, study more, think more, and pray again. We'll never know God's full intent and a lot of times we have to act on an educated faith.

[James S]

History of "Footprints in the Sand"
http://www.wowzone.com/fpnews.htm

A Purty version of it
http://www.geocities.com/mkcathy/footprints.html

I'd personally hate it if they found the author of that poem. It's so much more spiritual with "Anonymous" at the bottom.

[Keira]

Sorry to interrupt but i wanna comment on the race thing. I was born Jewish by race, regardless of what religion I decided to be. That is why I'm jewish. I can just not believe in god and still be jewish. Here are some quotes to back me up because this issue upsets me.


"This accusation attempts to rob Jewish people of their true racial identity."

"Though Jewish parents can biologically reproduce Jewish children, they cannot reproduce children that believe in Jesus. Racial origins are fixed by parentage but religious convictions are not a matter of heredity."

"The Jews certainly are a distinct biological race, and one of the amazing things concerning them is that their racial characteristics have not been lost over the past 1900 years of their dispersion."

"I personally am more concerned about my faith than my race and therefore prefer to call myself a Jewish Christian rather than a Christian Jew. ... I hope also that you will spend your energies in sharing the good news of Jesus Christ and his salvation with people of all races, rather than concentrating on opposition to your fellow Christians."

"... by the way Jews gene pool is one of the most compact among the nations ..."

"If Jewish believers have children their racial identity as Jews will automatically be transferred to them 'biologically' - i.e. because of their relation to their parents. The same would apply to English or Africans!"

"A Jew is Jewish by race - as a British person is British by race, whatever their religious standing."

"A Negro who is a Christian, Moslem, or Buddhist remains a Negro. ... The same is true of the Jew."

"The Israli religious establishment problem is that a purely racial definition, such as the biblical one, cannot exclude Messianic believers, while a rabbinic religious definition would exclude secular Jews, who make up the vast majority in the Land. The biblical definition is clearly a racial one, though of course God expects Jews to live up to the high standards of the covenants he has graciously given them."

"In this tree there are two types of branches, representing Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians. The Hebrew Christians are the natural branches; that is, we correspond to the very nature of the tree. It is as if the tree and the natural branches have the same blood type. The wild olive branches are the Gentile Christians. It is clearly stated that the presence of these branches in the tree is 'contrary to nature'. The blood type is different."


If you want us all to have a territory to originate from, give us one, we have never had that, not our fault. In a society where many people still view the Jew in terms of traditional antisemitic stereotypes, passing a Christian association off as "Jewish" is not difficult. It indicates however the extent to which "race" mythology still determines the British Christian's perception of the Jewish community. For many Christians "Jew" still only makes sense as a term of "racial" classification.

[sandmann]

Wait, clarify this: so Jews are a race? Or an ethnicity? What are Jews?

I was arguing that Judaism is a religion, perhaps I am wrong in that... Is Hebrew the ethnicity or whatever? What's the difference between Jews and Hebrews?

[Keira]

Jew- A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism. An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture.

Hebrew- A member or descendant of a Semitic people claiming descent from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; an Israelite; a Jew. The Semitic language of the ancient Hebrews. Any of the various later forms of this language, especially the language of the Israelis.

I'm busy now, i'll explain later.

[James S]

[another guest]

[another guest]

[sandmann]

The Bible is not the direct word of God, it was written by humans, INSPIRED by God. I believe that according to Christianity, once again as I have tried to explain to you, you do not have to take the Bible literally. So yes, he can be a good Christian without considering everything in the Bible to be fact.

Jesus saved us from sin by living a life free of sin and sacrificing it to us, the sinners, who killed him despite his sinless life. God lived as a human and thus we can look to that and live by it.