UN consent

[RICoder]

you are starting from a false pretense...that the government SHOULD be as big as it is...and that it NEEDS that money.

YOU earn it. YOU should keep it. If the government doesn't have enough $, then it should cut spending...not increase taxes.

Sit back...and SERIOUSLY THINK...for a moment. What public programs from the federal government do I benifit from? Which do I truely feel are the JOB of the federal government to provide for me?

I won't answer for you...do it yourself. But consider ALL the other programs...and consider the ones that could be handled by local taxes.

[Jaybot]

lol, personally, i think the several millions of dollars that is being spent on potato research, funded by the federal government, is an excellent expense.

[Maf54]

The fact that Joe Hillbilly doesn't have the money for another porno tape or mag, because NASA is going to Mars, means nothing to me. Sorry.

[James S]

[sandmann]

[RICoder]

Sandman...you sound like a liberal.

The next big question to ask is, should taxes be levied on an equal field. Meaning, ought taxation be the same on a percentage basis, for all people?

Moose's idea is good in that regard, because the 'rich', as it were, would not be buying a $6000 car, they would be buying a $60,000 car...and thus paying 10X as much taxes. Its not perfect, but decent, insofar as it only taxes money in one direction, out.

The alternative is a flat tax, like 20% for everyone. then if you make 10,000 you pay 2000 and if you make 100,000, you pay 20,000.

The way it is now, if you make 30,000 you pay about 20ish%, but if you make 100,000 you pay more like 38%. this is fundamentally unfair and punsihes people for making more money.

[James S]

[sandmann]

[RICoder]

I just think that it leads you down a dangerous path. I understand the debate, since on the surface it sounds completely acceptable.

The problem lies in the fact that ANYONE being punished is inherently unfair. It's a zero sum game, victor and vanquished...and the playing field needs to be level. There will always be poor and rich, in all systems. All you can do is provide a fair and level playing field to give the opportunity to get to the winning side to everyone.

[sandmann]

I couldn't agree more with leveling the playing field, and that's what I believe the graduated income tax does. It lets the poor keep a greater percentage of their income so that they have a better chance to rise to the financial level of the rich. It may be unfair in black and white, but in shades of grey it provides greater opportunity for those who make less money (cliche alert). A fixed income tax will only serve to keep the classes further separated, something which is NOT a pillar of capitalism.

[James S]

Except a VAT is not a fixed percentage income tax, it's a tax on the price of goods. Which is why I think a VAT would work out just fine.

And what is so inherently wrong with seperate classes? Why should they be merged or overlap? That's great if you can work hard and earn a step up, but that doesn't mean we should hand it to them. With my plan there is no income tax, no taxes at all except for a VAT. That way, someone can earn as much as they can manage and not be penalized in any way. Then they can learn thrifty habits and save their money (with no taxation on saved or invested money like there is now) and they can much more effectively travel through socio-economic classes, because then it is a matter of what they are able to do on their own and directly. Now it is quite difficult to start saving money, as the taxation and billing on a small sized bank account depletes the funds faster than they can be saved, I know this from first hand experience. The only way to not be penalized for having money in the United States today is the have it as cash under a matress, but of course you're taxed on that money before you can even get it in cash form so there goes that idea, and the lack of any kind of investment opportunity in cash means travelling up a class is difficult in our economy.

There's no way around it, we need to scrap the tax system and the education system.

[Maf54]

[RICoder]

[sandmann]

[sandmann]