A Jornada 720 version using the new GAPI

[randall]

I remember Digby sayin' something about ARM assembly before, and I forgot to ask him a question.<br><br>Wouldn't it be possible for Digby to optimise the ARM build? Of course the iPAQ is already the fastest of the devices, but I was just wondering.

[j720]

Quake 720 works fine on my j720, but why it doesn't use the whole screen but just a half of it? It isn't able to use whole 640x240 display or am I missing something?

[John Lomax]

Just to go back to my second benchmark scores. <br>I didnt use any of 999's config, or the autoexec<br><br>I didnt have them in any of the quake dir's.<br><br>J.

[Dr. Slump]

"Fe de Errats":<br>Sorry, whent I asked for a 320x480 version I want to say 640x240 version. Sure you are thinking I must be stupid.<br>

[Dr Slump]

I have a little question for developers of this port (Dan an Rob, I think):<br><br>Do you think it's posible develop a universal port, like an emulator, or a converter, to pass code from iPaq to (-->) J720? I ask to you because I think you are the first person who makes a serious game port version for J720 (after Leopoldo Bueno, Leos's fligh simutator. But he develop her own graphic engine).<br><br>It will be a very comercial ($$$$$$!!!!) program because nowadays all the games are developed for iPaq but I think J720 is more powerfull machine (the same procesor, but with 2D hardware accelerator,and keyboard). I know a lot of people who will paid for this port.<br><br>What do you think about??

[Dan East]

j720:<br>2 reasons it does not fill the whole screen at this time. First, 640x240 is not at the standard VGA aspect ratio. The screen would have to be stretched, or Quake would have to be configured to render more than the normal Field Of View, which looks wierd, but is useful so you can see beside you. Second, it would run at least twice as slow (more like 4-8 times slower with increased FOV), since at least twice as much rendering must occur to build each frame. I'm sure a 640x240 fullscreen mode will be produced, but it is a low priority because of the two issues I stated. Rob just got this thing tweaked to run on the 720, so you can't expect it to carry on a conversation with you or comb your hair for you quite yet. <br><br>Dr. Slump:<br>Pocket PC's use CE 3.0, which is a newer version than that used by HPC/Pro. Thus it may contain routines that CE 2.11 does not have. In addition, there are quite a few Pocket PC specific routines, such as those dealing with the SIP and the custom TaskBars, which HPC/Pro does not support. Finally, the biggest issue is the direct screen access. Even if a GAPI DLL were released for HPC/Pro, the programmer would still have designed their app for a screen taller than that of the 720. As seen above, someone was already complaining because every inch of the screen was not used. An app designed for Pocket PC would only use a little more than a 3rd of the 720's display.<br>To sum it up, if a programmer wanted to go to the extra trouble, they could dynamically load DLLs so that functions that weren't available could be bypassed, as well as provide alternate screen resolutions. However there is no way to produce an "emulator" or other shell that can rewrite that program to make it work on something it was not intended for. Now, if one of these DirectX-Game-Programming-Library-Thiings actually gains widespread acceptance (like Jacco's EasyCE, or the DirectX thing under development), then those libraries could be written to work around issues you mention above. So if the programmer wanted to show the SIP (the virtual onscreen keyboard all Pocket PCs have), then they would ask to library to show it. If it were running on an HPC/Pro then the library would do nothing. Regardless, the game author would have to design their game to work at resolutions other than 240x320 for it to be practical on a 640x240 HPC/Pro device.<br><br>Dan East<br>

[R0B]

[Anthrax]

Rob, thanks for what you've done here.  Also, randall, your maps and site look great--I can't wait to get my hands on pak1.pak so I can load some custom maps (& play episodes 2-4).  (Yes, I am one of the 3 or 4 people who never bought or played through registered Quake!)<br><br>Just ran a timedemo of demo1:<br>969 frames 183.8 seconds 5.3 fps<br><br>Is anyone else noticing some keyboard mapping issues?  Ctrl and alt have no effect.  Could this be related to the 720's "fn" mode?  (For example, tilde [~] and single left quote [`] are implemented throught the "fn" toggle.) <br>

[R0B]

First of all, I have noticed the button issue, but have not spent any time looking into it and finding out the problem.  As for the low fps, what resolution are you running it in?  Under the default conditions I average 7.6 fps in demo1, and get about 8.6 (or maybe its 8.8 or 8.4) in demo2.  You could always overclock you 720.  Just out of curiosity, for those who have overclocked their 720's, when you are in the fastest mode, do you still get sound.  I have noticed that all other speeds give me sound except for that one.  wierd, isn't it.

[Moose or Chuck]

You guys need to get a good autoexec.cfg file. My Casio runs at 7.6FPS with my cfg, I'm sure the 720 should run at around 10 FPS with the same config. We need to determine a default config for benchmarks and then post all the results on PocketQuake's website.

[Anthrax]

Rob, that 5.3 fps is at 320 X 240 Portrait.  I just ran it at the default resolution (240 X 180 Portrair) and got 969 frames in 385.9 seconds for 2.5 fps (huh?).  I'll have to try that again--I expected a better framerate, obviously.<br><br>I didn't know I could o/c this little critter.  Is it an onboard feature or do I need an app?  I have a 32MB CompactFlash card installed--is heat an issue?<br><br>By the way, this may be obvious, but PQ does not want to run while the device is connected to ActiveSync (who'd want to anyway).  I didn't realize how much program memory AS grabs.

[R0B]

Actually, PQ runs just fine for me when it is connected to ActiveSync, in fact, that is how I first ran it, since I have sending over a build a minute.  As for overclocking, I did it for the first time today, and no nothing about heat issue or anything.  It is an app called JS overclock (I think).  It says that it is only for the IPAQ, but works on the 720.<br><br>Moose, I have a quick question.  Would you mind E-mailing my your config file?  This way I can test it, and see how it works in HPCQuake (how does that sound?  Actually, I think that PocketQuake flows better.)

[randall]

Leave it as pocketQuake. It fits the whole family of handhelds.

[Anthrax]

Aha.  I just timed demo1 again in 240 X 180, twice, after reallocating the lion's share of memory to program memory (about 22MB):<br>undocked, on battery: 7.3 fps<br>docked & connected to ActiveSync: 7.2 fps.<br>Config is default except for new binds for Tab & a few other keys.<br><br>This is fine as long as I don't need more storage memory.  Time to move more files to the Flash card I guess.

[R0B]

Gee, 7.3 seems a little low.  I get 7.7 or 7.6 consitently when it is at normal speed.  I also give it 18000+ kb though.  Oh well, firt of all, I would recomend overclocking you 720.  I relized that the sound issue can be fixed by turning off then on your 720 after you overclock it and soft rest seems to un overclock it.  Also, I have tried out moose's config file and it works great.<br>240 x 180 (206mhz)= 8.2<br>240 x 180 (233mhz) = 10.3<br>I am going to upload it to my free drive acount.<br>ROB720<br>okokok<br><br>I have writen to the maker of GAPI for the HPC(Larry) and asked him if he includes 2d acceloration support in his GAPI and he said that it is overrated.  I think it couldn't hurt, so here is what I want you guys to do.  Email Larry at bitbank@pobox.com and beg him to include support for 2d acceloration.  I mean non stop, several messages a day, what ever it takes.  Speed is speed, remember, and it is always a good thing when it doesn't come at with a lose of quality.  So remember, you paid for that extra chip, why not get to use it.Last modification: Rob - 07/11/01 at 18:58:56